Nicholas:
I'm drawn to poetry because it's like fun, fast lines that can, like represent big, small aspects of life, and that could be the reverse of it. Like, you could have a small aspect of life that reveals a big thing or a big thing of life that reveals like just out of a small incident. And I think poetry is just a fun, easy way to do that, where you can get kind of creative and you don't necessarily have to follow all the logical rules of like, you know, prose or, and do like, you know, correct formatting.
You can kind of just get creative with your own thing. And as long as it kind of flows and works, it's like a, a nice flow that like quickly gets to the point without having to go 45 pages. You can do it in like half a page, you know, and you can hit like a big meaning for something.
Steven:
You can make. Well, I'm gathering you can take a small kind of intimate moment. More meaningful. Yeah. In poetry. Yeah. In a short amount of time. Yeah. You could take something big and make it more intimate.
Nicholas:
Yeah, yeah. Like. Yeah. It's like. Like. Yeah. Like I like a couple of things I had written like. Like in this, like the shorter ones I've had is like. Like the ideas of, like, closure things or couple of poems about like that, like closure or like when people are done, it's like there's just, it's a like quick. They're like four line that's just a short four lines. But it like means so much where you like, something about that where you're like, you know, maybe break up with somebody, you want to know all the reasons.
There's all these, like, filigree things, but it's like you can chop this down to the base things and it's like, oh, that's the big meaning. Or like, let's say about like a big day in your life, something you're like, I don't know, it could be graduation or like the what's next? You get fired from a job, something like that.
You know, there's like, that's like, oh, God, what's wrong? I do, but it's like, you can chop it down real quickly to, like, summarize it and gain some understanding of, like, how it affects you, what's really being affected. Do I need to freak out? Is this really that big of a deal? What's like the quick little line that's like, oh, it'll be okay. Or it is what it is kind of a deal.
Steven:
Yeah. So I kind of you kind of write that for your as kind of a, for yourself to try and get through things and then it becomes something for, to help the audience and the reader to.
Nicholas:
Yeah. You're hoping it's like and I try to write like how I talk, you know, which can be a my wife always says, it's like I, you know, I've lived like, I grew up in California and then, like, lived in the south northeast, the mountains. And like, I feel like all that's, like, played into who I am.
And then I'm so. Cal, I wrote a bicycle from a Sacramento to San Diego surf. Bummed it for a while. So it's like my wife always says, I'm like a like a country surfer twang, you know? And all these, like, different places live like New Orleans and stuff have all, like, affected me. And so now it's like you're you're hoping that just like, hits with like, great, like you're we're talking about like marketing, like hopefully somebody else finds these lines intriguing and wants to read them because they reflect that they see or hear in it, you know.
Right. And that's like the that would be like the goal. But obviously you do it for yourself and then you just start to think they're good and you start sending them out places, and then you're like, well, I got enough of them. I could make a book and see who likes it. But I think, yeah. First and foremost, it's to like get your own grasp on maybe like a world you don't understand or yourself that you don't understand at the moment.
All those fleeting emotions that are like going hazy, like how do you condense into like, oh, here's what's happening. I'm going to be okay.
Steven:
Yeah. I think poetry helps you to kind of slow down as well, you know?
Nicholas:
Oh, yeah. Totally. Yeah.
Steven:
Because you don't read it the same way. Right. In the same way as you're reading, you know, a book where like, okay, now I need to see what happens next and all that. You got to really study the lines and understand what they're trying to say. Yeah. And maybe not even understanding what they're saying, but try to find your meaning within those words.
Nicholas:
Yeah, totally.
Steven:
You know.
Nicholas:
Yeah. That's like the fun part I think is like all the little kind of like tricks of the trade. I think I've because I've, like, I've always been like writing, keeping a journal, you know, throughout all my travels and stuff. Like I have just like mounds of journals, but like, it's been probably the last year or two really, like diving into the poetry, trying to do it.
But it's learning like, oh, you're like, your title can be like some sort of like reference to the poet. And then all the lines support or create that. It's like a really weird. It's almost like a math equation that's like ambiguous and metaphorical, but like, could be straightforward. It all depends on how you take it, how the reader takes it.
You know, it's like you never know how the lines are going to hit, but it's like no matter what way, it's all getting, like ingested and it's all getting ingested and it's getting like ingested and then produced in a way that, like, affects somebody in some way, shape or form or yourself. So I think it's like one of those little tricks of the trade that it's like you're just kind of manipulating all these little the words and just how we talk and speak and the rhymes and lingo and the cadence and the flow and it all goes in to create this quick snippet of either a big or large thing that, like, I think, has impact on ourselves and just how we deal with the world.
Steven:
Yeah.
Nicholas:
To a certain degree, just getting through the day sometimes, you know, good. And you're like, man, I'm not feeling better already. Yeah, right. Yeah.
Steven:
So tell me, what is a Dilapidated Desperado?
Nicholas:
Dilapidated Desperado? It's like, so the first one I wrote that because I'd done it, the chapbook and I used wastrel as the thing. So I always desperado wastrel. Just kind of like, ruffian. Just like a like a bromigo. Reckless. It kind of means that, like, just kind of like you're dude, or you're just always on the living on the wild side, you know, like, I think life, especially when I was, like, graduating high school, was like, everything's gotten like, we were talking about the AI.
I feel like everything's gotten so like, you got to do this, got to do this, got to do this. Like, there's no more like Roman Free or just, like, cruising around and figuring it out, you know, like the, the westward, like, it's all the world's been seen. So you got to figure out, I think, how to keep that like freedom of the road.
Kind of like it's like Kerouac's idea or keeping the road alive, you know, like be willing to just like, go and experience it, you know, get on the move and get rowdy, have a good time, you know, experience this thing to the full effect because it's going to go by in a fleeting flash, you know.
Steven:
Yeah.
Nicholas:
Yeah, the dilapidated part is like, you're doing that so long it just breaks you down, but you still got to be hustling on the grind of it, right?
Steven:
Yeah. You talk about this, you talk about mortality in this book a lot. But having this encouragement to like, live life to its fullest to get out there, like what you're saying. And that's something you've done. Yeah. You know, so I'm sure that has influenced, you know, your philosophy and how you live.
Nicholas:
It's bizarre at times, I think, for people. But I've had fun with it. You know, I don't think there's any regrets on the table, so that's good. Yeah. You know, but it's like I've been, I, you know, I've gotten to, like, live all over the country, you know, and like, weird deep places, crevices that I wouldn't think to go to that I've ended up in.
And, you know, you meet different people that are like, you realize we're all the kind of the we're all kind of the same. We just, like, float in different veins, you know, like we're just in different places, but we're all doing the same thing. We're all looking. We're all looking for the same good time love, you know, trying to avoid trying to like, find the highs, avoid the lows.
And we're all just trying to survive it as we go, you know. Yeah. Just rip and roll some.
Steven:
Some years are tougher than others.
Nicholas:
And then you make it through those and you realize like the next one's not that bad. And then you get a chance to go somewhere again. And now it's like, I had a weird point, like I was telling the wife, because I'm, I live in Sacramento now and I never thought I would come back. I left to like oh seven, you know, drop back in.
But I would always be like getting out of here, you know, regroup. And this is the longest I've ever lived, like anywhere since like oh seven, you know, and it's it's been like a strange I think it's almost been, like, crawling on me, you know, like. Yeah, just kind of like. But I mean, I like it now, you know, being married and stuff and doing something new, but it's like it is kind of weird, you know, you get to.
I always kind of consider myself like a, you know, kind of coyote on the run, you know, you're just trying. He's cruising, trying to find an adventure out there.
Steven:
Yeah. Tell me about those adventures. Like, you know, you talk about New Orleans and was it the AmeriCorps? Is that what you did?
Nicholas:
Yeah, the AmeriCorps. It's like a domestic Peace Corps. So it's like the same premise as the Peace Corps, but it's like in America. So like when I did my first year, I was in NCCC, and it was at the base of our base was in Maryland. But Katrina just hit and they got all this extra funding.
So they were sending all the teams to New Orleans like the Gulf Coast. So it would be like from basically like I think kind of near like Texas, Houston, not to Texas, Louisiana line to like all the way to like Mississippi, Alabama. It was just like people rebuilding houses and up in like Jackson, they moved people north. So it was like we were in Jackson, Mississippi, Biloxi, Mississippi, and New Orleans.
And it was — I mean, that was — I grew up out Sacramento, out here in the suburbs of Sacramento. So going into like living in like the Ninth Ward, New Orleans was a big culture shock, you know. But it was fun. It was different. It's like, you know, everything's fried. I'm eating, you know, all the time. Just a whole different scope of life, you know?
That's like in this book, the Dilapidated Desperado. There's a couple, like, odes to — they don't necessarily say that, but they are titles that are odes to that point in time, which would be like "The Man," which was this guy Stan the Man that I worked with. Older Black dude. I feel like one of my mentors.
And we worked in Biloxi together, but that was like — that's a poem in here. That's, like, totally an ode to him. Just like learning stuff from him that it's like, wow, I would not see life through these eyes had I not had this chance to be with you. And that's like — that's a whole year condensed into like, you know, four little stanzas. There's just years in that one poem.
Steven:
And you probably have such a backlog because travel, you know, as you go and see places like that. But I think it's more about the people that you meet.
Nicholas:
Oh, totally. Yeah. Yeah, that's the best part. I feel like it's all the people you meet along the way. Yeah, anywhere. Even when I was in Montana. I'm like working on some stuff now — I wrote some short stories. Just a quick segue, but I've been trying to do one that started as a poem. But it flipped out better into a short story. I call it Foo Man, Buckaroo. It was about this cowboy packer we had when we'd be out living in the woods, and he just, he would, like, yell at his mules like they were people. And it would always crack me up.
But it started as a poem and just, like, worked better as a story. And that's the other thing — sometimes it's like a poem that goes into a story, or a story that's like, you can actually condense this into like a little poem, you know?
Or, I like doing the prose poems too — it's almost like the best of both worlds, I think. So I don't really know if I've figured out how to do it perfectly. I think it's always hit and miss. You know, you're just trying to figure it out, but it's kind of like what it says on the back of this. It's the search. It's trying. It's always being curious, looking for more. You know, you don't just want to get complacent.
And I think that's what at least poetry does. It puts that, like, magical, electric spin on the most mundane things.
Steven:
Yeah, yeah. Just something that someone who doesn't write, or might have understood a situation the same as you or I — that seems mundane, but there was something unique to it. I think you would know how to take that and make it meaningful in the written word.
Nicholas:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's just — some days it's like, you know, you got a good night's sleep or you're just feeling good. And it's like a good wave set, a swell set coming in. It's just firing. Right. You got your good timing, you're able to get back out, you're catching them. And other days it's just like wipeouts and you're not even getting out into the break, you know?
You're getting stranded on the shore. So some days it's hard, some days it's easy. But you keep at it and eventually find that groove. And I think everybody's groove is different, but it's just how you flip it. It's also perception, right? Having that perception to know — what about this is intriguing, and how do I put that down in a way that other people would get it?
Or I just like the rhyme of it, you know, sometimes. It doesn't even mean anything. It's just fun to, like, play with words and have them float in a different way that just paints a picture really quick.
Steven:
Yeah. Which leads me to ask — when people read your poetry, what do you hope they take away from reading your work?
Nicholas:
What do I hope people take away from reading my work?
I hope they take away the big themes, like — yeah, live life to the fullest. Take your chances. Go for it. You know, we're all here for a good time, not a long time. It could be gone in a minute. This could all be over very quickly, so you might as well savor the best of it.
And also, in the worst situations you can find the sunshine, you can find the beauty of it. And at the same time, just maybe if you can't do those things — here's a guy that says things you like, and I've been there, and I can write in a way that you like and that you get. Keep it simple. And simplicity is elegance, beauty in motion kind of a thing. It's a tough one, man.
Steven:
What do I want people to? Well, I hope they don't think I'm too crazy reading it. I write some — I let some, you know — I read some of the thoughts.
Nicholas:
I read a couple of yours. They were really good. But I'm like, all right, I think I gotta get a little bit more looney here in mine, you know. Yeah, I read a couple of the preview ones and I was like, well, they're kind of heavy.
Steven:
Yeah, I do, right. I mean yeah, that out of my brain so I can coach Little League and yeah, be a normal guy. Yeah.
Nicholas:
Well, and so okay, that would be another thing. I think that's for me — I know just writing it, it's like a good way to, like, make sense and let go. Like, you don't have to harbor all the feelings. You don't have to do that. And I hope, like — I like reading Langston Hughes. He's one of my favorite poets and one of my favorite poems by him is "The Motto," which is: I play it cool, I dig all jive. That's the reason I stay alive. My motto as I live and learn is dig and be dug in return.
And I always thought that was cool because that was the whole essence of like, why I wanted to get out into the world. It's like we could all find a common connection and you got to live and experience to know anything.
You know, it's like I feel like I have less opinions about things as I've gotten older and experienced, walked in more shoes that aren't mine, than had I just stayed the course of what I was told to be. Yeah. So I think those are the things poetry has done for me. It puts that understanding where there shouldn't be.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think I'll stick with that answer, and there might be more. It's a hard one to answer, man. You know, you just want to put it out there and hope. Hope some people dig it.
Steven:
Yeah, that's a good answer as any, you know. It doesn't have to be some deep — I don't want these metrics. Like, you know, it's fucking poetry.
Nicholas:
Like, it's poetry. You might like it, you might not. You might take something. You might just laugh at it. It could just be — sometimes it's like a joke of a poem, you know. Yeah, I think that's the beauty of it. So it's just fun to play around.
It's almost like — you've written a couple novels. I've been doing a lot of short stories and, like, compiling anthologies, and I'm like, I don't really know how to even — I try to get a novel going, but the poetry is like a good break to just let your brain play around a little bit.
Steven:
Yeah, it's so much more — to me it's more segmented writing where I don't have to have this continuity of a story that I'm working through. And it can get weird, you know? Yeah. You know, if you want to give people something.
Nicholas:
Yeah, it can float. It could just be like — I don't even know. Like, that does make sense in this strange way, but it just doesn't make sense. It's one of those things. I kind of tune into it — when I was surfing a lot, you know, you just you got to be out in the water and you got to be in it and you're just flowing with it.
And sometimes, like, it doesn't seem like it's going anywhere, that wave's not picking up, and all of a sudden, like, whatever, it catches and goes. Or you caught the wrong fall, but you dove right and didn't get hit in the head. It's all the things that are in motion that are either going to be like lessons learned or hazards avoided. Yeah. Yeah, definitely.
Steven:
Yeah, yeah. So I mean, so you talked about, you know, you're working on some short stories. What's next? Is that what you're working on next? Are you going to do more poetry or?
Nicholas:
Yeah. No, but I'm working on like another poetry collection and I've put together, like, a short story anthology. I'm adding a couple more and then, kind of try to get that — I don't know, I feel like maybe I'm asking you. The novel seems like, I don't know, do people even read novels now?
I feel like I read novels, but I'm like, I don't know anybody else who does. It seems like.
Steven:
So if you want to — and I'm no expert on this, so just take this with a grain of salt. Yeah. I think the most sold books are more like series. Yeah, like mysteries or things that you can go on to the next book and the next book, you know, continuation. Then below that is like fantasy. And then literary fiction is way down here.
Nicholas:
You know, which — because I'm such a, you know, I got all the books over here — it's like, you know, Hemingway, Kerouac, Zora Neale Hurston, like, I mean, all the stuff — William S. Burroughs, you know, Tom Robbins, Maya Angelou — like all the books. It's like, I love that literary fiction. I can't believe it's because those are those stories.
But like, with the reality of life, I guess it's more escapism now instead of dealing with it.
Steven:
And then how are people consuming books now? Right. Audio books. They're just listening to them, which was cost prohibitive for a long time because you'd have to get a voiceover artist.
And then they, you know, to pay them, it could be $1,000. Even for a short novel. Now, where there's AI, you can do all that.
And that was even a few years ago before the kind of explosion of GPT and whatnot. They were already offering that kind of thing, at least in beta on Amazon, on their publishing thing. So that's, you know, that's a way to do it. And I have friends who are like, well, if it's not an audio, I'm not reading it, you know.
Nicholas:
The interesting thing — you made me think too — I substitute at a couple different school districts in the Sacramento area. But I was at Highlands High in North Highlands, kind of northeast Sac, off of 80. The teacher — I was in a class for a parent educator. So it's like kids with developmental issues. They could be either like mild to moderate. These were more mild to pretty normal kids, maybe like dyslexia or something that just makes it hard. But the teacher, he's an ELA — English language arts. So I was in an English class and I was talking to him before the class and was showing him, you know, the book and stuff.
And we were talking about it, and then he went into talking about poetry, and he was saying — the only thing, which I thought was cool about the poetry — he was saying they — I couldn't remember exactly the test they did, but it was like AI couldn't replicate poetry. It was like the one thing that a human still had, like the touch to human. The AI couldn't replicate it as well as what people liked. And what they read was always what a human wrote. AI could, like, replicate the long form narrative, but poetry — there's something that's just naturally human. It needs that human touch to really, like, sling it well.
Steven:
AI is very good at structured things. Write a novel, you know, if you break it down into a traditional novel — act one, act two, act three. You know, like if it's a screenplay, you've got the plot points one, plot point two, that kind of thing. So it's very easy for AI to kind of figure that out and replicate it because you can see it.
Yeah. And it's done it thousands of times. It can pick up three different poetry books and they might all be different.
That's why coding — if you're a coder, I worry for you right now. Because AI is going to take your jobs. The shitty thing is that these engineers spent years and years developing just these insanely complex coding things and all that. And the more complex they made it, the better they made AI.
But it's not just me saying this. I mean, they've said this in my work. We're cutting 50% and it's starting with the engineers.
Nicholas:
Dude. Yeah. See, see, it's making me lean into poetry more, you know. So I just think you're writing the poems more.
Steven:
Without blaming the AI.
Nicholas:
Yeah, yeah. So it's like, I don't even know anymore. Yeah. If you're like — right when you're growing up, you want it to be like Hemingway or Hughes or something. But now it's just like, I don't know. It's like you're just compelled to write and that's like what I do. And that's just like what I like to do.
So you're always just going to try to do that. It's like regardless, it's just passion, right? And that's probably the bigger part of what life is because money is only going to get you so far. You can't buy passion. That's just got to be built in you. Yeah, yeah.